2024-08-30 — A Conversation with Jeff Hochberg W4JEW; Part 1 - the Appalachian Trail Golden Packet 2024 Event and Part 2 - State of APRS Foundation - August 2024, 3 Breaking Updates on APRS Foundation
Remember JavAPRS as a Java programmer back then. I disassembled it, and with the source code was able to upgrade to new Java versions. I never liked the applet Web thing, so mine was desktop only. Alas, I never understood the attraction to APRS. Even though I had a lot of experience with military TADIL-A, APRS never developed much past position reporting. The thing that really irks me, even today, is the digipeater concept. It should be removed. It should have been cross-banded to UHF, but instead the Internet (instead of radio) was used.
Steve - APRS networking should have been better; could have been better; could still BECOME better. That it wasn't was a result of WB4APR being a benign dictator of the standards of APRS. K4HG told it well in his email that WB4APR was a minimalist when it came to Amateur Radio APRS technology, and he wanted to maximize compatibility at the lowest common denominator. Thus APRS digipeating only required a very minor tweak in the built-in digipeater function of a typical TNC of the era. That was good enough for him. Now we have $50 supercomputers who can do routing and we have cheap UHF radios, and I remain hopeful that less expensive 222-225 MHz radios designed for data (flat audio) will emerge to let us rebuild, and build back better general purpose Amateur Radio data networks - BBS traffic, APRS traffic, file transfers, flood bulletins, text messaging / paging, etc. We CAN... we have the frequencies, we have the user density, etc. We just haven't quite cracked the code of a reproducible design for doing so... but I bet we will with nearly universal deployment of something like a DigiPi and a stack of radios for 144, 222, 444, and maybe even 50 MHz, all with their own DigiPi, all networked together at a home, figuring out mesh networking... quite likely all auto discovering each other by beaconing out their capabilities on 144.39 - the "Hailing Channel" concept that I hope that APRS Foundation accepts as a project once it gets organized.
To add to your "Zero Retries Guide to VHF / UHF Radios for Data" under the "Some Modification Required / In Production / Amateur Radio" Section:
The TYT TH-9000D (a clone of the Alinco DR135) requires a very minor mod to use it as a data radio. Basically you extend a connector on the circuit board to a connector on the back of the radio. Details can be found at https://www.hamvoip.org/howto/TYT_mod.pdf
I've been using one of these connected to a DigiRig as an APRS two way igate for several months, and it works quite well. I've only used it at 1200 baud but there is a thread here with the last entry mentioning success using it with VARA FM (https://groups.io/g/VARA-MODEM/topic/87021974)
I believe the mod is the same for all three versions of the radio, 2m, 220, and 73cm. I'm using the 2m version.
Dj - thanks for that pointer, and I took some time and added the TYT TH-9000D to that document. Per Masters Communications, it isn't "highest speed" capable (cannot do 9600 / VARA FM Wide). I was aware of that radio and have it on my long to do list (admittedly pretty far down...) to do the whole buy the radio and do the mod procedure. Thanks for pointing to a well-documented procedure - that's good enough to add it to my document. Note that for modification to newly purchased radios, RPC Electronics makes a slightly nicer adapter that uses the same mounting plate, but has a 6-Pin MiniDIN connector rather than the 9 pin DSUB socket - https://www.rpc-electronics.com/tytminidin.php.
Ha! Apparently you are way ahead of me on this since you published an article on it 3 years ago! :-) I have to admit I hate those fragile little 6 pin connectors. A standard 9 pin DIN is a lot more physically robust and can be secured with locking screws. Nice find on the Masters Communications and RFC Electronics info and connectors. Somehow I missed those in my research.
I was going to use a couple of the TH-9000Ds to build an M17 hotspot and an M17 capable radio, but I decided to wait until the Module 17 version 1.0 becomes available as a kit or pre-built rather than having to mess around trying to order boards from a manufacturing facility. I could build the M17 hotspot (or maybe even a repeater) but I don't have anything that could talk to it! :-) I suspect it won't be too long before this happens.
Dj - Yeah, DIN and MiniDIN connectors in general aren't... optimum... for physical robustness (I don't care that they often project more than 1" and as you say, little physical support for the connection). But for a lot of folks that prefer to do their Zero Retries Interesting experimentation mostly in software, you cannot beat the plug and play convenience of the 6-pin MiniDIN sockets, cables, and semi-standardized signals.
I'd love to join the APRS Foundation as a member...but I resist giving real credit card numbers to new organizations using a new membership system. The lack of a track record fuels my worry. If they support PayPal or anything other than putting one's credit card at risk, I'd be all in.
Tom - I passed that along to W4JEW and he heard and understands the issue. The system they initially chose for membership had a free or low-cost tier that they felt forced to use because they didn't have much budget. But thanks to a lot of people "showing up" to join APRSF, they now have some budget to move to a higher tier of that system, which can apparently accept a wider range of payment options.
Tom - Per the latest email from the APRS Foundation, your fears were well-justified and they have changed member management systems to a more mature system. Perhaps consider checking in with them again to see if it's more appropriate.
I have an IGate setup on 223.54Mhz at 2400 baud (V26B) in Connecticut (FN41). I am open to testing with anyone in my area. I'm running Direwolf 1.8D, so I can change configurations easily. I can also put a second radio on 70cm online for additional testing.
Douglas - That's cool! I suggest also beaconing that capability on 144.39. The late N7RIG in this area had a 4 or 5 band APRS system with software running on a PC and ports on 6m, 2m, 1.25m, and 70cm, and perhaps (I'd have to look at the collection of radios in N8GNJ Labs), 10m, all interconnected. I've wanted to put it back online as N7RIG, which I'm a trustee of.
Christopher - I was told after the article published that the logo I featured was a quick AI mockup of an idea for a logo. So yes, it needs a bit of fine tuning 😄
Remember JavAPRS as a Java programmer back then. I disassembled it, and with the source code was able to upgrade to new Java versions. I never liked the applet Web thing, so mine was desktop only. Alas, I never understood the attraction to APRS. Even though I had a lot of experience with military TADIL-A, APRS never developed much past position reporting. The thing that really irks me, even today, is the digipeater concept. It should be removed. It should have been cross-banded to UHF, but instead the Internet (instead of radio) was used.
Steve - APRS networking should have been better; could have been better; could still BECOME better. That it wasn't was a result of WB4APR being a benign dictator of the standards of APRS. K4HG told it well in his email that WB4APR was a minimalist when it came to Amateur Radio APRS technology, and he wanted to maximize compatibility at the lowest common denominator. Thus APRS digipeating only required a very minor tweak in the built-in digipeater function of a typical TNC of the era. That was good enough for him. Now we have $50 supercomputers who can do routing and we have cheap UHF radios, and I remain hopeful that less expensive 222-225 MHz radios designed for data (flat audio) will emerge to let us rebuild, and build back better general purpose Amateur Radio data networks - BBS traffic, APRS traffic, file transfers, flood bulletins, text messaging / paging, etc. We CAN... we have the frequencies, we have the user density, etc. We just haven't quite cracked the code of a reproducible design for doing so... but I bet we will with nearly universal deployment of something like a DigiPi and a stack of radios for 144, 222, 444, and maybe even 50 MHz, all with their own DigiPi, all networked together at a home, figuring out mesh networking... quite likely all auto discovering each other by beaconing out their capabilities on 144.39 - the "Hailing Channel" concept that I hope that APRS Foundation accepts as a project once it gets organized.
To add to your "Zero Retries Guide to VHF / UHF Radios for Data" under the "Some Modification Required / In Production / Amateur Radio" Section:
The TYT TH-9000D (a clone of the Alinco DR135) requires a very minor mod to use it as a data radio. Basically you extend a connector on the circuit board to a connector on the back of the radio. Details can be found at https://www.hamvoip.org/howto/TYT_mod.pdf
I've been using one of these connected to a DigiRig as an APRS two way igate for several months, and it works quite well. I've only used it at 1200 baud but there is a thread here with the last entry mentioning success using it with VARA FM (https://groups.io/g/VARA-MODEM/topic/87021974)
I believe the mod is the same for all three versions of the radio, 2m, 220, and 73cm. I'm using the 2m version.
Dj - thanks for that pointer, and I took some time and added the TYT TH-9000D to that document. Per Masters Communications, it isn't "highest speed" capable (cannot do 9600 / VARA FM Wide). I was aware of that radio and have it on my long to do list (admittedly pretty far down...) to do the whole buy the radio and do the mod procedure. Thanks for pointing to a well-documented procedure - that's good enough to add it to my document. Note that for modification to newly purchased radios, RPC Electronics makes a slightly nicer adapter that uses the same mounting plate, but has a 6-Pin MiniDIN connector rather than the 9 pin DSUB socket - https://www.rpc-electronics.com/tytminidin.php.
Ha! Apparently you are way ahead of me on this since you published an article on it 3 years ago! :-) I have to admit I hate those fragile little 6 pin connectors. A standard 9 pin DIN is a lot more physically robust and can be secured with locking screws. Nice find on the Masters Communications and RFC Electronics info and connectors. Somehow I missed those in my research.
I was going to use a couple of the TH-9000Ds to build an M17 hotspot and an M17 capable radio, but I decided to wait until the Module 17 version 1.0 becomes available as a kit or pre-built rather than having to mess around trying to order boards from a manufacturing facility. I could build the M17 hotspot (or maybe even a repeater) but I don't have anything that could talk to it! :-) I suspect it won't be too long before this happens.
Dj - Yeah, DIN and MiniDIN connectors in general aren't... optimum... for physical robustness (I don't care that they often project more than 1" and as you say, little physical support for the connection). But for a lot of folks that prefer to do their Zero Retries Interesting experimentation mostly in software, you cannot beat the plug and play convenience of the 6-pin MiniDIN sockets, cables, and semi-standardized signals.
I'd love to join the APRS Foundation as a member...but I resist giving real credit card numbers to new organizations using a new membership system. The lack of a track record fuels my worry. If they support PayPal or anything other than putting one's credit card at risk, I'd be all in.
Tom - I passed that along to W4JEW and he heard and understands the issue. The system they initially chose for membership had a free or low-cost tier that they felt forced to use because they didn't have much budget. But thanks to a lot of people "showing up" to join APRSF, they now have some budget to move to a higher tier of that system, which can apparently accept a wider range of payment options.
Tom - Per the latest email from the APRS Foundation, your fears were well-justified and they have changed member management systems to a more mature system. Perhaps consider checking in with them again to see if it's more appropriate.
I have an IGate setup on 223.54Mhz at 2400 baud (V26B) in Connecticut (FN41). I am open to testing with anyone in my area. I'm running Direwolf 1.8D, so I can change configurations easily. I can also put a second radio on 70cm online for additional testing.
Douglas - That's cool! I suggest also beaconing that capability on 144.39. The late N7RIG in this area had a 4 or 5 band APRS system with software running on a PC and ports on 6m, 2m, 1.25m, and 70cm, and perhaps (I'd have to look at the collection of radios in N8GNJ Labs), 10m, all interconnected. I've wanted to put it back online as N7RIG, which I'm a trustee of.
I am amused that the proposed logo has a pin at (0,0). Did the designer forget to turn on the GPS? 😂
Christopher - I was told after the article published that the logo I featured was a quick AI mockup of an idea for a logo. So yes, it needs a bit of fine tuning 😄